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#haskell

Name: Anonymous 2014-05-30 20:30

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08:09:12 <rwbarton> haasn: for instance, just comparing "main = mapM_ print [1..10000000]" to a C program using printf, it is already only ~5 times slower
08:10:00 <albeit> Why "already only"? Is that faster than you would expect?
08:10:02 <vanila> Why is haskell so slow?
08:10:18 <rwbarton> I am just responding to <haasn> I guess for String, “only an order of magnitude” would count as “surprisingly efficient”
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08:10:34 <mmachenry1> vanila: Maybe Haskell just woke up.
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08:10:58 <Maior> vanila: do you just sit in channels to troll them? the Django stuff yesterday about the master/slave stuff was unsubtle
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08:11:16 <Maior> (for a flexible value of yesterday that means "some days in the recent past")
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08:11:41 <mmachenry> Maior: I guess I *was* born yesterday ;)
08:11:45 <napping> Is there an easy way to expand unicode ligature characters (I really just need "ff" and "ffi", guess I could hardcode them)
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08:12:09 <Maior> mmachenry: :P
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08:12:35 <napping> Data.Text.ICU.Normalize probably does it somehow
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08:14:20 <absence> has it been decided when the applicative monad proposal will hit ghc head? anytime soon, or closer to 7.10 release?
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08:15:40 <Maior> absence: ooh got a link handy?
08:15:51 <vanila> Maior: Since you're ignoring my PM I'll say it here: that was very rude and unfair of you
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08:16:31 <Maior> vanila: I have PMs from non-friends disabled
08:16:31 <ion> {-# LANGUAGE ffi #-}
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08:17:03 <Maior> vanila: meanwhile, I stand by it as a valid question from the data I have
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08:17:29 <vanila> Maior, move discussion to PM
08:17:40 <Maior> I'll pass
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08:19:20 <mmachenry> Maior: It's not really a valid question yet. I don't have your data and your question is underspecified. Unless I missed something which is possible, I lost network a moment ago.
08:19:27 <absence> Maior: http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Functor-Applicative-Monad_Proposal
08:19:44 <ion> vanila: Pastebin your code and we can try to figure out why it’s too slow. Otherwise the question can only be answered with mu.
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08:19:59 <rwbarton> absence: there is no scheduling of when things hit GHC HEAD in my experience. either someone gets around to it, or not
08:20:10 <Maior> absence: cheers
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Name: problematic 2014-06-05 14:29

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09:15:58 <Algebr> Seems like a massive waste of duplicated effort.
09:16:08 <chirpsalot> Algebr: oh, it totally is!
09:16:26 <Yuu_chan> Real mean write their own data structures for each project.
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09:16:29 <chirpsalot> Whenever I need a linked list in C... I just write my own.
09:16:31 <Yuu_chan> *Real men
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09:16:42 <Maior> Yuu_chan: please don't do that
09:16:51 <chirpsalot> It's kind of just what the culture is with C, I guess?
09:17:17 <Yuu_chan> Maior: do what?
09:17:23 <Maior> Yuu_chan: "real men"
09:17:39 <pjdelport> Yuu_chan: real mean men? :)
09:17:46 <Yuu_chan> Are those kind of jokes banned?..
09:17:54 <dfranke> eacameron: for example, if A and B are semigroups (and I'll use + for the semigroup operation because I can't remember what ekmett uses in the semigroup package), then f and g are an isomorphism of semigroups if forall x,y : A, f(x + y) = f(x) + f(y), and forall x,y : B, f'(x + y) = f'(x) + f'(y).
09:18:05 <Maior> Yuu_chan: pass; I wasn't aware of any form of "ban list"
09:18:06 <yitz> dfranke: <>
09:18:07 <edwardk> <>
09:19:31 <yitz> dfranke: and f is an isomorphism of sets
09:19:49 <nclarke> Yuu_chan: I doubt they're banned, but those kind of comments help perpetuate the idea of programming as a "man's game", and thus tend to (probably unintentionally) exclude others from the community
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09:20:01 <Maior> nclarke: thanks, was trying to word that
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09:20:44 <Yuu_chan> My bad.
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09:21:12 <lwm> nclarke: Yuu_chan: while off topic, this is really interesting as to whether that age old classic programming joke is now sexist
09:21:14 <yitz> Maior, nclarke: we definitely are trying very hard in our community to be sensitive to those kinds of issues
09:21:15 <dfranke> in this case, we already have the appropriate established connotation from the term "Real Programmers", which happens to be gender-neutral :-)
09:21:16 <vanila> how you make a linked list in haskell: data L a = N | C a (L a)
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09:21:34 <vanila> how you make a linked list in C: .... 1000 lines specific to a single data type.. >300 bugs
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09:21:53 <chirpsalot> vanila: or void* :P
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09:22:00 <vanila> tru!
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09:22:10 <chirpsalot> vanila: in that case >1000 bugs :)
09:22:14 <vanila> haha
09:22:25 * chirpsalot is a C programmer.
09:22:33 <chirpsalot> It's so invigorating to get this off my chest :P.
09:22:45 <vanila> yea same :)
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09:22:58 <nclarke> yitz, Maior: Yeah, I was made very happy the other week when an offhand comment about homosexuality was picked up on immediately. It made me proud to be part of a community which is deliberately trying to be inclusive
09:23:06 <chirpsalot> vanila: Algebr this is actually probably another reason why standard libraries for structures don't exist. Generic ones are... Not really well supported by the language.
09:23:13 <yitz> however in this case, i don't think it was so problematic. it was a criticism of traditional male "macho" behavior, which is one of the big reasons why previous lack of gender inclusiveness was a serious drag on quality in the software industry.
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